Brett says:…there will always be a predominant worldview imposed in our society. If it is not Christianity or any other main stream religion it will more than likely be humanism – Which in itself is a religion.
I say: I can’t disagree about dominant worldview – it could be Rupert Murdoch’s worldview or the Catholic church’s – worldview is not the exclusive domain of religion. On the topic of humanism (which isn’t a movement that I personally identify with) there is enough debate around to muddy the waters on whether it can be called a religion. It depends on agreed definition – your worldview says it is, and mine says it isn’t. Agree to disagree?
Brett says: My argument would be that it is impossible for us to separate religion and state as there is always going to be a set of values or beliefs held by those who make decisions in our society.
I say: So the decision makers are the ones telling us what goes? Or is it majority rules? What about the minority beliefs and opinions? Is a secular education system impossible or undesirable? You imply that it is impossible but I think that it should be something desirable worth working towards.
Brett says: I find it intriguing that you would suggest that the “intelligent design” movement somehow not be a legitimate scientific theory or fact that could be taught to students?
I say: I’ll admit that was an off-the-cuff example based on my (slender) knowledge of intelligent design’s controversy in several US states where it was proposed that its teaching replace that of evolution in science curriculum. But my brief searching on the web finds conflicting views of equal weight as to whether intelligent design is a scientific theory or a religious theory. Courts and different experts are hardly in consensus. So if you say ID is just a theory (and I didn’t offer evolution as a truth in my comment), then I apologise for a poor example.
Brett says: However, if a student is not taught some set of values what have they got to base their opinions on?
I say: As generally, kids don’t live in an isolated world, they acquire values in many ways that aren’t necessarily explicitly taught to them. I teach values every day to my kids through my actions, the way I interact with others, the way I treat them. Everyone has values – whether you or I believe them to be worthwhile, that’s another thing! I gained values from my teachers (well, maybe one or two of them) or I saw values I did not like.
Brett says: True but it is still absolute truth to me… I hold certain values as absolutes which form my basis for judging other philosophies. These absolutes have been developed over time as I have learnt and observed particular parts of life. Once again, my argument here is more along the lines of having some form of absolutes as a foundation.
I say: One of the meanings for absolute is “not to be doubted or questioned” – your argument is that you need absolute truths as a building block for values, as a basis for your actions in life. I disagree – I think absolute truth is impossible, because something that is absolute has to hold true for everybody in existence. That starts to become part of the metaphor about seeing things in black or white, or in different shades of grey. Surely an absolute truth would be so blindingly obvious that it would be impossible to disagree with. I’m struggling to think of one – maybe murder, but then war would be wrong and the death penalty would be wrong – I suppose I’m trying to say there are so many exceptions to any truth that truth itself has a very slippery meaning.
Brett says: I personally believe that we need to give children a firm foundation of truth and then teach them about what other people and cultures believe and their reasons for their beliefs.
I say: Do you mean the concept of what truth is? Or do you mean teach the predominant set of beliefs with a view to including other viewpoints and their reasons? I am unsure of your intent here.
Brett says: I am sure you have a set of values for life and core values that you bring into your educational world, however, those values will always be based upon a worldview or philosophy of some sort. It may be post-modernism or humanism or new age beliefs, either way your perception of truth and values are based on some foundation you have set in life through your own experiences.
I say: I couldn’t agree more, but I don’t think that these values need to fit into a category of any kind – you are right, they have been shaped by my life experiences. They are my worldview. Everyone’s worldview is totally unique even if they choose to align themselves to a particular belief system or chosen lifestyle – but perception is not something that is created, to me, it is your own personal worldview.

Your last paragraph I concur with completely – but it seems at odds somewhat with your original post where you said, “How can we expect young children to decide what is true and not true if we have a society that teaches us that truth is what ever you want it to be?” Is that what you hear society saying?

Brett, thanks for the opportunity to engage in this interesting conversation. At no stage am I “having a go at you“ or your beliefs – just trying to help you understand where I’m coming from and what I’m struggling to understand about your thoughts. Cheers.